Height supremacy vs. bodyshaming

The thing is that if you talk about it you're branded as bitter, wallowing in self-pity, endlessly complaining, making excuses, genereally negative and then it's turned around on you. You're not experiencing people being shitty and judgemental but instead you must be experiencing people reacting to your shitty bitterness, self-pity, excuses etc.

Been there a hundred times and now I'm very careful about mentioning anything about it at all. Had this thread been in german and posted in a more frequented part of the forum I probably would not have answered at all to save me a headache.

the strange thing is, you (I’m guessing the man in the pair) are listed as 175 which is not “short” in my opinion. Average height for a man or pretty close. You are both good looking in my opinion.

This thread is a real eye opener for me. Thanks.

wow.

That or the "How tall are you?" followed by an immediate unmatch.

Hypocrisy is part of the human condition, I guess. You are a strong woman and argue powerfully? Your argument is invalid because you are being hysterical. You are a big guy and just want to cuddle? Fuck off, you are a fag. You are an intelligent woman discussing amazingly on the internet? You are clearly a fake because women cannet be that smart. You are a beautiful man with a deep soul looking for love? No way, you are just superficial and shallow. You are a tough woman and rose to a high position? You just fucked a guy to get there.

I could go on and on and on. Why should this particular hypocrisy be any different from the zillions of others we endure daily? Men and women are not that different, at least not in that regard.

As much as I agree with you about the double standards employed regarding height an weight, it is hardly a unique phenomenon. Maybe we should broaden our scope and realize that we are all some kind of hypocrite at least somewhere. But being aware of it enables us to be better than that.

I don’t know how to use this think to it’s fullest.

It is important, but listenning is part of communication. Notice I said listening, not only hearing.

Men are frequently encouraged to not talk about this kind of things. At least I can say I have someone to talk about this sort of "deeper" things. But it took me years to find.

It's not only about height or body shaming, it's about everything. We are not supposed to have feelings or feel insecure about ourselfs, we have to be a man. "Man up!"

That's why usually men suffer in silence.

You heard the one about the mathematician who was tasked with building a fence around the universe? He built a very small fence around himself and said: "I define myself to be on the outside." Douglas Adams also used this idea in Part 4 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

We define what is manly and what not. If somebody said to me I am a pussy for expressing my feelings, I would answer that it is much more manly to show emotion and risk being called exactly that than to cower in fear and hide my feelings lest I am being ridiculed. (Ok, I am not that good at showing emotions anyway, but that is a completely different story.)

So, in a way, to "man up" is the right thing to do. But not in the way the usual suspects mean us to do but exactly the opposite. We have to man up and show our emotions, otherwise we will never be able to do so without doubting ourselves.

First off, great topic guys, this is really a good read, and I would like to offer my perspective on some points...

Being positive in the way we construct our "online" preferences is certainly a very good approach, but the sociological competence of the average 21st century human, dictates otherwise. The general consensus is to consume, replace and consume again, perpetually, so It comes easily to you when stating that you need the "perfect" person with measurements of your preference.... "Consume"

Taking the time to define your most inner desires, and honest feelings, taking care not to offend your suiter, are way too much effort, so an off the shelf "product" is used,
(social media instant sexy).... "Replace"

and as simple as the sunrise, we have the predicament we're in.

There are many underlying issues here, but one that is really hitting me, is the "small guy" one. I too, must shamefully admit, have partaken in this "ritual" of mockery or shaming as you guys say... not some of my proudest moments

Where does does it come from?
DNA Influence
I can find no, logical explanation, that would dictate a person to have a preference on the height of their potential sexual partners.
just the thought of having some decimal number in my DNA makes me feel robotic...

Social influence
I think this plays a BIG role, and is malleable by us, to a certain degree. Adding this positive form when stating your preferences is a really good start, but against the Social Tsunami out there, not very effective in fighting against discrimination. You would have to start another trend, to change it, but before you could even finish, the next trend will take over..
a pointless endeavor in my opinion

Family influence
If you tighten your mind for a moment to only your blood relatives, or that which you call family. Could it be that we all are creating this size issue ?

Think about it,

was the advice from your mother not "eat all your food so you can grow up to be BIG and strong" ?

didn't your Father tell you that you are a "Big boy" for doing this or that?
This "healthy" competitive spirit, seems to have some side effects.

but now, we are the parents/caretakers, so we can change this, the REAL question is just how?

To me, this is the REAL issue, or the most important part of the problem, and one where we can really make a difference. But to make that change, we need real examples.

How can I, make a difference?


Trying to fight the result of a problem we have created is maybe not the most effective way to solve this issue, so here is a chain-reaction-solution from my far-fetched fantasy mind

Make the woman shorter, to decrease the average definition of "tall", increase the importance of intelectual sexy, to steer away from physical prerequisites and finally remove gender from the table, to promote equality. But for that to happen, we would need to disbann the clothing industry, invent telepathic communication, and figure out how to breed humans without using humans.

If you are thinking of laying a Egg at this moment, we are on the same page


but back to reality...

How can I, make a difference?

@*******Bill

The one about language is a good point that I didn't want to touch as it might be a but too in-detail. But it is definitely true. We set "tall" as the default positive and reinforce that in a lot of ways without actively thinking about it. Big and tall, standing tall, be the bigger man. Tall is seen as inherently desireable.

I never had any problem with my height besides the social/judging aspect of it. I fit in every car and plane, in every country, I buy clothes off the rack without any hassle or tailoring, my back and joints are in top condition, it's an advantage in my hobbies as some lifts become easier (weight training), I put on muscle mass quicker without needing nearly as much food and I'm at a good height for a lot of sports.
Objectively, my height is awesome. No drawbacks except this one social structure thing.

What you can do about it is a) be aware of it and b) call it out. As I said, it doesn't exactly work if I do it as it just comes off as defensive/butthurt/negative etc. But coming from women or tall men the argument will be given a lot more thought as both groups are the ones benefitting from this construct.

I think that what we prefer sexually is not discriminatory. It’s Biology. You like what you like. This can change over time and with experience and I think it’s good for people to broaden their definitions of what they find sexy. Because I’m into BDSM I’m more interested in a guy’s brain and less interested in his height or his cock. I’m not necessarily fucking him and I’m hopefully not going to be standing much during a session. I think it’s important to be considerate when stating your preferences though. If I see a profile that says “no fat girls” I’m not going to be interested in that profile because it’s mean and suggests a lack of empathy. How about saying “I prefer partners who are height- weight proportional “. I personally do not care about body fat. I care about playing with healthy individuals and fat does not equal unhealthy. There are plenty of skinny people who are unhealthy.

@**********rlily thanks for mentioning this! My mind also went to BDSM, to openly expressing preferences and not being ashamed of what you want, to being radically honest... but then I felt that this thread was about some different personal experiences that just needed to be acknowledged...

Like you, I find it easy to spot the "body standard police", and I'm automatically not interested in those profiles... I remember seeing once someone who advertised that they had "4% body fat" ... as they say, for every demand there's an offer...

Now, do such people need to be told they suck? I guess so... but I'm not sure they read such threads (where I've mostly seen very inclusive and relaxed opinions...).

Nothing changes someone's perspectives like the experience of meeting different people and realizing that attraction and a great sexual and human interaction don't have much to do with someone's appearances...

P.S. Another reason why I love the BDSM and Kink community, by the way... for the diversity, inclusion, non-judgement...

@**********rlily



I don't think it's biological nearly as much as we generally think it is. We are presented with a permanent onslaught of messages that tell us what is and isn't attractive. And I'm not talking about obvious examples like Instagram influencers here. They are but a small part of it. There are huge societal trends that heavily influence what we are attracted to.

If it was biology, beauty standards should be roughly the same around the world. Which is not the case at all. In asian countries, most skin care products have whitening agents for your skin. That's not something I have ever seen in a central european country. But I have seen the opposite. If my girlfriend gets a tan she's considered to be "glowing" in europe, but described as looking "dirty and poor" in SE asia. Likewise, I'm mocked for being pale as a ghost in germany but a envied for my light complexion in asia.

So no, it doesn't have to be racism. But it is interesting that in a country with very strong racist tendencies, the beauty standard usually just so happens to match it. Black women are often described as manly, trashy and loud in the US. And compared to other women, they have the least amount of success on dating sites. The same is true for asian men.

So while the individual preference itself is not racist or discriminatory, it's very possible that it has been formed due to structural discriminatory beliefs within a society.

So, using ourselves as an example.

I am attracted by dark skinned women, any origin, but having said that I am quite broad in my attraction, the only type I would exclude is pale porcelain skin.

My wife prefers white males. Anything darker than Hispanic is definitely off the table for her.

Are we racist?

If we would put her preference in a date ad, we would most certainly get a racist kick back.

Personal preference and attraction is what it is and it can change over the years but can we intentionally change it ourselves? And should we even try, just to be PC?

Once I dated a very obviously non-physically attractive man. I dated him because he had other characteristics that I found great and interesting: a nice conversation, great sense of humor, smart, sensitive, creative, etc. and I find those characteristics very necessary. That said, I was very aware he was -no doubt- the most psychically unattractive man I have ever dated. Even I feel a total irrational attraction for tall men, he was smaller than myself, one could say that we belonged to different scales and it is not only the fact that he was smaller and I prefer bigger people than myself, it was that he was definitely unattractive by all means.

I do not lie when I say that I have always treated my lovers with great respect when exploring sex. I find the act of nudity can be still very sensitive for a lot of people and I would never body-shame anybody and much less in that kind of situations, on the contrary, I try to make people feel beautiful, sexy and charming. And so I did with him too.

Well, perhaps you won't believe that this guy has been, precisely, the only man I've met in the late years of my life who actively and explicitly body-shamed me once I was naked. Having been with very obvious handsome men that were always respectful -even when I was not in my best shape- the guy who body-shamed me was the most unattractive guy I have ever dated. Meaning: if he had reasons to criticize my body, no doubt I was plenty of much more reasons to criticize his. In any case, I preferred not to do it and simply I decided not to date him anymore.

That experience gave me a lesson. I don't think nobody has to be 'politically correct' at choosing partners, most of the times is very irrational why we feel attracted by ones or others, nobody has to do a kind of 'effort' to be with someone and if you have preferences might be because of something. I suppose he had other preferences too.

Let's not forget either the amount of unattractive men who consider they deserve a beautiful woman and reject frontally unattractive women like they are and tend to hate and be revengeful when beautiful women rejects them.

And also: same as a lot of women prefer tall men, a lot of men prefer small women.

Definitely, since that experience, I do not feel bad when being selective. I know it is for my and their good in the long run.

Diskriminiert Könnte sich auch Dicke Bohnen fühlen wenn ich weiß das mir Wachsbohnen besser schmecken.

Und wenn mir Mädels mit mehr Kilos besser gefallen als die Dünnen und sie sich dadurch diskriminiert fühlen, einfach mal ne Kelle Suppe mehr essen dann passt das irgendwann wieder.

Wenn eine andere Meinung ein anderes Gefühl für etwas schon gleich in die diskriminierungsecke gestellt wird dann hilft nur noch klonen alle sind gleich alle denken und fühlen gleich und alle sehen gleich aus

Ein wirklich in sich ruhender Mensch würde gar nicht auf den Gedanken kommen eine Abweisung als diskriminierend anzusehen, der hat nämlich soviel Spaß im Leben das er/sie sich nicht den Kopf zerbricht über Dinge die man eh nicht ändert.

Denn wo soll das bitte Anfangen und wo aufhören, wenn ich alles was mir nicht gefällt als Diskriminierung sehe ich aber mit meiner Meinung zu den wenigen gehöre die so ticken müsste ja in einer politisch korrekten Welt die Mehrzahl für mich ihre Meinung andern, das wäre doch ein wenig diskriminierend oder?

Toleranz hilft da denn das bedeutet ertragen/erdulden können und wer das nicht kann muss einfach mal in sich gehen und sich fragen warum das bei Ihm/ihr weitaus schneller an die Grenzen stößt,
Meistens ist es die Eigene Unzufriedenheit was natürlich keiner zugibt.

Denn man selbst ist ja immer Perfekt und hat die Weisheit mit dem Schamlöffel gefressen.

Wer die Meinung vertritt das wenn jemand auf Schlank steht alle übergewichtigen diskriminiert das muss er selber wahllos sein denn sobald er selbst etwas favorisiert, werden dadurch alle anderen die das nicht haben diskriminiert.

Diskriminieren und diskreditieren wird es immer geben und das ist auch gut so den auf klonen habe ich wirklich null Bock Entschuldigung an alle die das gut finden würden aber ihr diskriminiert mich dadurch gerade, ich kann damit Leben aber ihr wolltet das doch nicht.